March 21, 2011

So what's with Dan Kimball, Alan & Deb Hirsch, and homosexuality?

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(note as of 2-24-2015: I am no longer a Pirate Christian supporter.  On 9-2013 there was an update on the Ingrid/ChrisR situation - please go here: http://www.purposedrivel.com/2013/09/a-great-announcement.html  Ingrid and Chris had reconciled.  This was a good thing.  We were all friends again.)

 Further update here:
http://www.purposedrivel.com/2015/02/tullian-and-nadia-birds-of-feather.html
I am no longer a Pirate Christian supporter.  Too much hypocrisy, too many double standards, too many false accusations. I apologize for all the confusion.  I pray it won't happen again.)
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This sounds suspicious...
http://vintagechurch.org/2010.11.07.message.html
Going to listen to the audio there now. This occurred immediately before Kimballgate.

Alan tweets to same article glowingly
http://twitter.com/#!/alanhirsch/status/3099231178981376

here's an article by alan hirsch about homosexuals and kids

Andrew Marin interviews Alan Hirsch
http://www.loveisanorientation.com/2010/andrew-interviews-alan-hirsch/

Horrible interview... But that's the kind of guy Dan Kimball thinks is great?

This talk (from Vintage church, which was linked on the first page I linked to above) by Deb Hirsch is abominable. She keeps referring to the 'gay church' as if that's ok...it sounds from her presentation that you can be Christian and gay...living with your partner... because her sister's partner is still gay and living with her (new?) partner and thinks she's a Christian. Maybe it was her sister. Would have to re-listen.

But she's not going to tell you whether God says homosexuality is OK nor not, she PERSONALLY thinks homosexuality is not God's best for us, blah blah, but that's something you have to work out for yourself. God gives us free will to choose.  So she's a pelagian, semi-pelagian, or at best an Arminian.

She quotes from Leviticus, trying to explain the liberal view...Says Leviticus is a weird book, there are a lot of purity codes we don't live by today. But she keeps saying things that seem to say "her perspective" (personally) is that the prohibition on homosexuality is something that carries through to today. But again from all the hat tipping to all the 'different interpretations' by well known and respected Scholars, I guess you could have a different interpretation on this... she keeps saying this stuff about differing interpretations and giving them near-equal credibility.

Dan comes on at the end and recommends Rob Gagnon and the book "Homosexuality in the Bible: Two views." and recommends Robgagnon.net as a resource where you can find out what the leadership of Vintage Church believes on this subject.  But Dan wasn't going to say, himself?

So I went to Gagnon's site and ended up listening to a 25 minutes video from the "pure passion" series to get an idea where Gagnon was coming from.  He's seeming much stronger against homosexuality than Deb Hirsch, so not sure how Dan can endorse both of them. She seems to say it's a matter of opinion not worthy of church discipline, while Gagnon says it is something that must be disciplined.

In addition, Gagnon critiqued Andrew Marin and Marin responded with a completely ridiculous response to a well reasoned Critique.  So how is it that Marin is ok and fairly enamored with Hirsch, but not Gagnon, who holds a fairly Biblical understanding of homosexuality?  Is it because Hirsch is pro-gay, doesn't ask people to forsake their sin, writes articles that say gay adoption doesn't harm children, while Gagnon does not make excuses for such sin?

And how is it then that Dan Kimball is ok with and glowingly promotes both Alan and Deb Hirsch AND Rob Gagnon? This seems very  duplicitous.

And why are certain Christian 'Discerners' SO OK with compromising emergent/emerging (same thing most of the time) Dan Kimball that they're willing to pronounce him orthodox and attack Ingrid Schlueter and Deb Dombrowski for disagreeing?