November 23, 2010

Chris Rosebrough Reverts to Pietism

(aside: for an update on the Ingrid/ChrisR situation please go here:  Ingrid and Chris had reconciled.  This was a good thing.  We were all friends again.)

(2-25-2015 Further update here:
I am no longer a Pirate Christian supporter.  Too much hypocrisy, too many double standards, too many false accusations.)

Chris's New Law

Chris has turned a corner. And now he's in the seedy part of town, deciding he can fix all the problems of people not seeing eye to eye in the ODM "industry."

Chris Rosebrough
I've begun working on a Discernment Ethics Standard. It's painfully clear to me that something like this is LONG overdue.
5 hours ago via TweetDeck · Like · Comment

Chris Rosebrough ​@Tom - most industries have standards. Since Discernment is becoming more like a mini industry and some Discernment Shops have quality products while others, not so much. It's time to put some industry standards in place to ratchet up the quality and weed out the poor quality shops.
4 hours ago · Like · 1 person

Chris Rosebrough ​@Marlene - I've been in conversations with others in the Discernment Camp and there are a few of us who think that something like this is long overdue and if it had been in place prior to this incident it wouldn't have gone down the way it did.
4 hours ago · Like · 1 person

Name these "others" Chris. I wonder if CARM could be one after the email discussion My husband and I just had with Kendell Cook, wherein I was told that everyone he's spoken to (again unnamed) thinks I have a screw loose ("dislodged a screw" is the exact phrase) and that I ought to pipe down to save what little face I have left to save. And "Why isn't your husband dealing with this publicly?" 

(Um... he has been. Jason did write back to him immediately on all of those, and all I can say is young Kendell brought a knife to a gunfight there, even if it was just a spelling bee.  Response from Master Kendell?  *crickets*  *crickets*)

So, speaking of ethics violations... I guess we can insult people in private as long as we are nice and loving on our blogs!

So I want to know who's going to be overseeing the discernment world. Chris needs to name those who along with him think this is a great idea, long overdue.

Industry standards? You mean, he wants some sort of Congressional oversight to regulate the discernment 'industry'? Yeah that works so well. Problem is, it will be sinful and imperfect people doing this anyway. Come to think of it, I thought Chris was a 'capitalist?' Has he been watching Keith Olbermann again?

Chris Rosebrough ​@Marlene one more thing. there is a reason why I've been spending so much time on my wall dialoging with those who've taken a strong stand against my conclusions regarding Dan Kimball. The reason I did that was NOT primarily to defend myself but to get to the heart of the matter regarding the evidence that they had or thought they had regarding Dan. Over and again the ONLY evidence that was offered was very poorly researched guilt by association evidence and much of it was 5 and 6 years old and hasn't taken into consideration the changes Dan has publicly been making for the past 3 or so years.
I have no problem if someone comes to a different interpretation of the data we're all looking at. But to be selective and schlocky with your research is also a form of deception. Discernment ministry is too important for it to been done with no discernment.
4 hours ago · Like · 5 people

I haven't said anything to Chris for a week or so since I removed him as a friend (other than a few tweets tonight to plead for sanity and post my summary), because I knew I would just inflame him more. I seem to have a reputation for doing that. (No idea why since i see him, Matt Slick, and others using the same pointed polemic language, but hey, maybe it's a woman/man thing. Women aren't supposed to have opinions.)

But this is enough. This has to stop. I am so grieved over what he is doing. I am seriously concerned for Chris's spirit. I am not trying to be hurtful, I am COMPLETELY SERIOUS. He is sounding not at all like himself. He is now teaching us now the opposite of what he has taught us since the beginning of FFTF. He is the one being a legalist and a pietist now.

This is not something a NON-pietist Lutheran would do -- imposing rules and codes of your own (oh sure you'll go to the Scriptures, but don't they all...) on others who are called to defend the faith! Is this not just what our friend Richard Abanes tried to do?

Behind the scenes Chris has wronged many this past week with your mockery and sideways slanderous accusations. He seems to be using this to punish one online presence in particular for disagreeing with his promotion of Dan Kimball. Chris has far more more eloquent and far more diplomatic people than me challenging hiim, and still he cannot back down. I am completely at a loss. If this is how it's going to be, I'll shut down my blog now and let the 'pros' handle it. Rather than risk getting stabbed in the back or nipped to death by Dan and Chris. I already know I don't and never will measure up to their standards.

Since Chris made it analagous to an industry or business (Just like Rick Warren made the church into a business), Chris has now decided he can be the government who reaches in and collectively coerces and tells businesses and individuals that they are too successful, or what the government thinks they should be doing and how they should be doing it. We can't of course let the 'market' decide what they want to 'hear.' Is he reading too much Huffington Post? I knew what happened back in August, with all the fallacious argumentation, was a very bad sign of where his thinking was going.

Chris, call Dr Rosenbladt and ask him if he thinks you should put yourself in the position of Lawgiver here for the
Christian World Wide Web. In fact, why don't you just give Rick Warren the job? He's a pretty nice guy and could keep us all in line. He might even have the money and a great big ruler with which to smack everyone's fingers who gets out of line.

Frank Cappi ​@Chris~Time to crack the ruler and bang the erasers~School is now in Session~ 3 hours ago · Like

Chris Rosebrough ​@Frank You know it 3 hours ago · Like

This sounds like your stereotypical horrror stories of corporal punishment in Catholic schools. Only it's not even funny because you are serious about this. Oh but you say this is all voluntary. Just like attending a purpose driven church is voluntary. Thanks, well then count me out.

So just out of curiosity, what are you gonna do if you find a blogger who is "heteroprax" according to your New Law? Publicly accuse them and call them a liar if they choose poor wording? Pose with them and take pictures and pronounce you a brother/sister in Christ and minimize your differences? I mean come on!

Chris, get ahold of yourself! YOU are the one that is doing this! Can't you see Connie Waters's tentacles around your neck? WAKE UP! You are shooting your friends who are trying to HELP you.

So after Listening to tonight's Fighting for the Faith stream which spoke mostly about this very idea he posed on his wall today -- he specifically says he is thinking about doing a segment now called "dubious discernment." (I will add the FFTF link once he gets it put up)

there are some in the greater discernment camp who've lost sight of these Biblical objectives and sadly I think that they're off track. Cuz here's what it boils down to: if you're using deception to fight deception you're still part of the problem. And so what I'm calling for and what I've begun work on is an ethical standards policy if you would. A discernment ethics standard. The goal of which is to keep the primary focus of what we do in discernment as removing the stuff that obscures the proclamation of the call for a voluntary...well..adherence to the highest standards in research data and conclusions drawn from that data regarding dangerous heterodox bible twisting, bible believing, and heretical teachers in the church. You see, just because someone isn't teaching sound doctrine doesn't automatically make them a heretic." That's a term that has a meaning, and that meaning generally has to do with someone who is rejecting attacking impugning maligning, or tacitly denying the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith. That being the case there's a spectrum of error and so we must do the job of good bereans... and we must also properly draw correct conclusions and inferences from all of the data. That means we cannot subjectively refuse to allow some data to be weighed. That means we can't be selective in our application of data, nor can we engage in guilt by association, ad hominem attacks, or half truths in making our case that a particular teacher is dangerous subversive or even heretical. The goal of which all of this is to help clean up some of the mess that exists in the general discernment camp because what we're doing in discernment is so important that we cannot allow discernment ministries to be disqualified and discredited because of some who haven't properly done their homework."

So now Chris is not only going to be a teacher, but he (along with these nameless ‘others’ that he has been talking to) going to be the one grading all the other ‘teachers.’ At least that's sure how it sounds to me. Well great.

After the break he says:

What I’m going to do right now is I’m going to read part of or maybe most of a blog post written by the controversial figure Dan Kimball, one of the leaders in the EmergING church movement. Dan Kimball writes in the name of his blog post ‘A Call for Christian Discernment Websites to LOVINGLY Discern each other.’ Notice he didn’t say go to war with each other, he didn’t say bash each other. He didn’t say bash each other, he said LOVINGLY discern each other."

(don’t they all...after seeing what passes for LOVE from Chris and Dan this week, I'll pass on voluntarily submitting to this New Law and instead worry about trying in my quite faulty way to live according to the Ten Commandments.)

“Cuz here’s the deal. What I’m calling for with this idea of a discernment ethics standard is for us to lovingly push and challenge those in the discernment camp to do the best work, not the substandard stuff. To do the best and to really put our best foot forward because what we’re doing is so vitally important. Especially in today’s current church atmosphere.”

Who gets to decide what 'substandard' is? Chris himself engaged in fallacious reasoning over and over again this past week, not to mention in the FFTF Ground Zero Mosque debacle, and he stubbornly refused to be corrected. So how is this 'code' enforcement realistically going to be worked out? It will be just as messy as it was before. He is not solving ANYTHING by doing this.

Everything good that he suggests in this code of conduct is self evident and clear, and we all try to do that anyway. So the conclusion that I come to is that he must be implying some other higher authority/threat if you do not comply. i.e. he is going to be more active in nitpicking areas with his brothers and sisters where he doesn't agree, and warning people publicly against them if they don't fall into line with his way of thinking. This is the very essence of oppressive micromanagement, which he decries in the pietistic churches that he so vocally criticizes.

He just said it is about tough love: "I'm gonna tell you the truth even if it's going to hurt your feelings."

Hence I say this: Chris... get ahold of yourself. This is not you. This is the old Chris before he met Dr Rosenbladt. This is the Nazarene Pietist Chris.

And I'm sure I have completely violated this proposed code of ethics yet again. So be it, since Chris, at the behest of his new BFF Dan Kimball, has "declared war on" and "bashed" his friends.

I don't endorse much Derek Webb, but I do think this is an interesting and appropriate song right about now.