Original post time was 5/26/08 12:01 AM
Update/correction made in RED 6-14 after listening to Sunday School audio from Twin City Fellowship from 5-25 and 6-1. Please, TCF readers, do not think I was attacking Bob. I disagreed with the way he and Chris reported on some things intially, but I do not think Bob was swayed by Rick at all. Bob and Ryan, and all of you at TCF are still very precious to me. And the people who tried to relay to me what happened at Sunday School were only trying to be kind because they knew this whole issue was very important to me.
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update:
I have received an update on what Bob spoke about at Sunday School on 5-25 and that his personal impressions of RW are in the process of being edited out. OK. [Correction 6-14-08: they were deliberately not recorded because they were just personal opinons that were not relevant to the issue according to Bob in Sunday School 6-1. My contention has always been that stuff like this should not be shared from the "teacher's chair." In private conversation, OK. If sharing from the teacher's chair, then it should be something you can share with everyone. And yes I mentioned this to Bob].
I have been given the lowdown by two sources that seem to agree on the content. And that personal impressions were given and may not be on the podcast.
So I guess I don't need to listen to the Sunday School myself anymore because I have trustworthy people relaying the information to me secondhand. That's a load off my mind. (update 6-14-08: this is a comment not on Bob's choice to keep this info back, but Chris's refusal to release the recording of the meeting... if someone tells me what happened, then I should not worry about hearing the original source material, right?)
Being handed a canned version of events when the real version is available (original source material) is kind of like the mainstream media's attempt at sanitizing the news to give you their slant.
I feel condescended to.
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original post follows:
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I was disturbed by the tone of Chris R's 'thank you' to Rick Warren.
I am not surprised by any of the reports. We all knew Rick would be nice and *seem* genuinely interested in their point of view. That is easily explained as something like diaprax/delphi method at work. [CORRECTION/CLARIFICATION 6-14-08: This is unclear the way I have phrased it here. The intention is to describe WHY Rick Warren is doing all this, and why he is so gracious and hospitable -- because he is constantly employing this technique. It is not a comment on whether or not it worked on Chris or Bob.]
But I still think people need to hear the audio and that it isn't right to keep it secret. Pretty sure Chris said that both were given recordings. [6-14-08: In any case, Chris was]
In suggesting that the audio should be made public to keep everyone accountable, I wasn't suggesting that either Bob or Chris might be swayed by Rick Warren. HOWEVER procedurally and for accountability reasons for all three (RW, Bob, Chris) it should be made public.
and because this isn't a Matt 18 issue. And because they were ostensibly representing so many saints who have been harmed by his teachings and abused at the hands of false undershepherds in the name of Purpose, those saints deserve to be able to verify what was said on their behalf and what the response was. Including all the nonverbals.
The fact that Chris is OK with saying "trust me" here to a bunch of people who've been burned by that before is insensitive.
I don't doubt Bob is being truthful (in his report to his church) and complete about what transpired.
However, I also want to hear the things that Bob cannot relay third person. Tone of voice, inflection, pregnant pauses, etc. those things that betray a hidden agenda. (by RW obviously)
I have also been in SO many meetings where men I care about totally MISS the loopholes and red flags that are put out verbally and left wide open by the 'opposing' party, and even when I point out "did you hear when he said that? don't you realize he means THIS and this will come back to bite you?" they don't get it.. they say 'well so& so isn't that way he wouldn't do that, we trust him!" until it comes back to bite them. And often then they forget I even said it would.
I wasn't saying I don't think Bob or Chris is trustworthy. I just think it [6-14-08: Chris releasing the recording] is the right thing to do to maintain openness and transparency. Yes, Bob is wonderfully transparent. (as I gather Chris has been too) So when someone like that decides this time not to be transparent and everyone's OK with it, it bothers me.
If warren repents I'll be content. But I still am discouraged by the attempt to keep the actual recording to themselves. If it's out there then be transparent and let the chips fall. If there is nothing to be afraid of, then out with it.
No sense protecting false teachers like Rick Warren. It smacks of everything I fled.
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