Matthew writes:
"Show me your faith, and I'll show you my faith through my works.
The implied point of that statement by James points out that...you really cannot show faith. Faith is utterly internal, private. Only through action outside yourself can you demonstrate that faith.
Warren is attempting to wed both the protestant internal faith element with the high church emphasis on good works. One is supposed to be an outgrowth of the other.
Is this the heresy of which you speak?"
my reply:
That's a fairly good general summation, yes.
Thank you for the blog link. Youtube limits on replies prevent me from giving a more comprehensive reply.
I'm tempted to post a reply on my blog, but don't know that I want to invite your ridicule or some god-awful war of words between my ambiguity and your ABSOLUTIST CERTAINTY that you are 100% right, 100% of the time.
Suffice it to say that if you are the person I believe you are (via goggling your profile name), you appear to have significant credentials on hermeneutics and theology. Be that as it may, I still believe you mistake faith and patriotism, blending two elements that diminish the purity of the faith, and do nothing much for the politics side of the equation, either. As such, it would stand to reason you'd throw plenty of vinegar at Rick Warren for, yes....practicing a more loving, conciliatory approach to non believers. It would fly right in the face of your World Net Daily, Free Republic, Fox News inspired political beliefs. Though it would align with scripture.
Matthew
my reply:
I dunno that I have significant credentials. I just want truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. If the truth is what sets free, if Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, why wouldn't I want truth at all costs?
I really don't have any idea where you get that I worship America. I don't believe America is God's chosen people or anything of the sort. I do think that American principles (which we seem to be abandoning more and more) are good ones. And I do think that we should defend our country from terrorism. I do think that most of our men in uniform are 'good' guys. (not the Biblical definition of good of course, which is only applicable to God alone). I think they are sorely mistreated by beauraucrats in Washington and it makes their very difficult job even more so.
Yes I am on Freerepublic, you're welcome to try and post there. I don't know how long you'd last, but hey, worth a try. They used to come down pretty hard on those of us that 'diss' Rick Warren, but they are starting to realize that he's not as conservative as he says. So now they tolerate us.
I don't like Fox News anymore either. Getting a little pragmatic and fluffy for me. And boy do they love to promote the feelgood religion such as Rick Warren. In fact I don't watch much TV at all and don't listen to much talk radio like I used to. I prefer Way of the Master, Issues Etc, White Horse Inn, Dividing Line, and other Christian podcasts.
I am tired of hearing people saying we should vote strategically along party lines (e.g. mcCain is better than Hillary or Obama, which I agree with, but he also has supported a lot of stuff I disagree with, for which I am not going to compromise anymore). Hence the Republican party isn't going to get my support anymore. The pragmatists will tell me I'm throwing the election to the opposition. I say what's the difference anymore?
I prefer the Constitution party, but alas, it's still pretty small. Oh well. It's not going to grow if everyone says "it's too small so I won't support it." That's follower mentality. "I'm not going to do anything until enough people are going along so that it makes it more comfortable for me."
At some point you have to realize, as Reagan did that your party has abandoned you, and its principles.
I really feel that America is heading for judgement, but I also see most countries that are worse off. Once America falls (internally or externally), I'm pretty sure a lot of chaos will result worldwide, as Revelation predicts.
I pray you will have assurance. I wouldn't believe what I believe if I didn't think it was right... I don't know how can change that. I do revise my beliefs in the face of new information, and always have. It's not a comfortable process. Coming to the realization that Romans 9 really means God has a purpose in even the bad things that happen, that he has elected some for salvation and left others to their own devices that he might display his righteous wrath. That was not a comfortable position either... and yet all I can do is simply believe that the Scriptures mean what they say, and that it is good.
I realized that I was wrong to think that not taking a stand was the 'humble' way to go about things when really it was the 'comfortable' way to go about things and is equivalent to Peter's denial in the courtyard during Jesus' trial.
As far as being certain, let me tell you something -- I totaled my truck on March 1st and, if things had happened just a little differently, could have killed the two people in the other car...plus could have seriously injured my 8 yr old son who was in the back seat of our truck... all because I was distracted and missed a 4 way stop on a rural highway. I don't know how I missed it. I felt awful, utterly miserable, for at least five days, waiting to find out about the other two people. While filling out the paperwork later in the week, I realized their injury codes were C (same as my son's) - possible injury, and B, non-incapacitating injury. During that time I really questioned a lot of things... was I really ready to die (I sure could have if I hadn't noticed what I was doing and had no time to brake)? Do I really have any fruit of the Spirit which I can point to to give myself assurance of salvation? Once the intense emotion wears off, I feel better, and don't feel so doubtful. And then that made me question too, because I felt so shallow.
Then I realized that the more I look at myself and my feelings for assurance, the worse off I was going to be. It's not me, but Christ, who I should look to.
As far as being certain, let me tell you something -- I totaled my truck on March 1st and, if things had happened just a little differently, could have killed the two people in the other car...plus could have seriously injured my 8 yr old son who was in the back seat of our truck... all because I was distracted and missed a 4 way stop on a rural highway. I don't know how I missed it. I felt awful, utterly miserable, for at least five days, waiting to find out about the other two people. While filling out the paperwork later in the week, I realized their injury codes were C (same as my son's) - possible injury, and B, non-incapacitating injury. During that time I really questioned a lot of things... was I really ready to die (I sure could have if I hadn't noticed what I was doing and had no time to brake)? Do I really have any fruit of the Spirit which I can point to to give myself assurance of salvation? Once the intense emotion wears off, I feel better, and don't feel so doubtful. And then that made me question too, because I felt so shallow.
Then I realized that the more I look at myself and my feelings for assurance, the worse off I was going to be. It's not me, but Christ, who I should look to.
I will always have something that I can look at in myself, some lack, or some sin, that will accuse me and cause me doubt. Even those that Jesus praises for their works in Matt 25 seemed fairly unaware that they were doing good works and ministering to Jesus. Very likely because it was quite natural for them to do what they did. They did not draw attention to it or demand that the whole world support them and join them.
The ones who pointed out their works were told "I never knew you." This seems consistent with the fact that "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:13. Like a child who is unaware that he is growing, and has little control over it, except to be nourished with healthy food (in this case, good teaching) and have that growth have its natural result.
When I was struggling with the falsehood that was going on in my church, I felt completely alone. People with blogs like mine were literally a drink of cool water in a desert to someone who was ostracized and publicly humiliated in front of a group of people that professed for 6 years to love me as a church member. (I'm sure many stlll do, but are really confused about how that is supposed to be shown Biblically). So I knew that when I found the truth that was so refreshing and helped me to make sense of betrayal, lying, abandonment, etc and to realize I was NOT alone, I knew that I had to do my small part to help add to the voices who are calling to the thirsty, lonely, hurting, betrayed Christians in the world to come and drink freely of the water of life I (and many others) have found.
I just wanna say that because you are unsure doesnt mean that everyone else must be unsure. We all have times of doubt and struggle, but to consider 'not knowing' to be a virtue, especially when the Bible is clear as can be on a subject, is in reality, not trusting God, disguised as a false humility. I used to believe that it was true humility too.
thanks for putting up with my blather... :-)
The ones who pointed out their works were told "I never knew you." This seems consistent with the fact that "it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure." Philippians 2:13. Like a child who is unaware that he is growing, and has little control over it, except to be nourished with healthy food (in this case, good teaching) and have that growth have its natural result.
When I was struggling with the falsehood that was going on in my church, I felt completely alone. People with blogs like mine were literally a drink of cool water in a desert to someone who was ostracized and publicly humiliated in front of a group of people that professed for 6 years to love me as a church member. (I'm sure many stlll do, but are really confused about how that is supposed to be shown Biblically). So I knew that when I found the truth that was so refreshing and helped me to make sense of betrayal, lying, abandonment, etc and to realize I was NOT alone, I knew that I had to do my small part to help add to the voices who are calling to the thirsty, lonely, hurting, betrayed Christians in the world to come and drink freely of the water of life I (and many others) have found.
I just wanna say that because you are unsure doesnt mean that everyone else must be unsure. We all have times of doubt and struggle, but to consider 'not knowing' to be a virtue, especially when the Bible is clear as can be on a subject, is in reality, not trusting God, disguised as a false humility. I used to believe that it was true humility too.
thanks for putting up with my blather... :-)
